Build Trust And Completely Remove Checkout Hesitancy For Your Shopify Brand With Jack Bloomfield Of Disputify

STEVE 00:00
Hey there, it's Steve Hutt. And welcome back to season five of ecommerce Fastlane. And if this is your first time listening, this is an ecommerce show where we have honest and transparent conversations about building and thriving with your store powered by Shopify or Shopify. Plus, if you're an ambitious, lifelong learner, which you likely are, since you're here today, you're definitely in the right place. Now new episodes are available twice weekly with your favorite podcast players like Apple, podcast Stitcher, Google Play Spotify, and many more. You can also stream current episodes including a very relevant back catalogue directly from E commerce fastlane.com. Now in today's episode, my guest is Jack Bloomfield, who is the founder of a company and CEO I might add a company called dispute defy now dispute fi what they're doing is they're redefining e commerce status quo by empowering merchants to offer instant refunds, and making smarter refund decisions. And to move the product uncertainty at checkout, we always want that confidence for people to actually make a purchase. And so it's interesting what this solution offers. They have a 15 second Shopify integration, instant refunds is promoted on the product page, and has proven to drive over a 22% increase in conversions and over dying for this. Also, it pairs with deep insights on the customers behavior are also delivered as part of that transaction, really, at the point of the refund request was quite interesting the amount of data they're collecting, and what's available to the merchant, you know, and these insights really help inform fulfillment and refund decisions by combining a lot of the historical kind of customer data they have from a single store. But it's also the data they have from across their whole global network of incredible kind of direct to consumer brands is really interesting on what they've done, and what they're building and how they're tightly connected with the Shopify world.So hi, Jack, welcome to e commerce Fastlane.GUEST 04:02
As you stated, I appreciate you having me absolutely.

STEVE 04:04
I know our time zones are massively apart you being an AIPAC, me being here in Vancouver, British Columbia, we probably 1617 hours apart, but you know, what, where there's talent and where there's great solutions being built and problems being solved. We just got to make things work.

GUEST 04:21
Right. Definitely. And it's interesting, just even time zones and I've been up since it's seven o'clock here in the morning, and it's always nice that having to be able to do due calls in the morning and then be able to sleep for the afternoon and then do it or get at night. Yeah, it's an interesting challenge.

STEVE 04:35
I know I looked at calendar like Okay, super early in the morning for Jack, but Oh, well. So okay, let's talk in high level first about dispute of Fi we know the problems that you're solving. It's very unique, I'd almost argue you might be first mover advantage on something that's quite unique. And so I want to make sure that everybody is clear listening today, like what is disputed fie and what are you solving today as a pro Problem for brands.

GUEST 05:01
Yeah, definitely well, to give an even try and give a better intro than even you just gave before, which was excellent, good, incredible glad I did my homework. Look, I'll start with the instant response product. And it's a new product that we've released in the last couple of weeks, we've been beta testing it now with just over six leading DTC Shopify merchants, what we're allowing merchants to do, as you mentioned, is on the product page, advertise to customers that they're offering something called an instant refund policy. So what that looks like from a customer perspective is, you'll go into a store for the very first time you see this on a product page. Now, it gives stores the ability and brands to be able to properly stand behind the product that they are actually selling.

So in the event that the customer goes, Okay, I'm going to take the risk here, if it's a size, for example, like am I medium, and my large, no one really knows, especially if it's a first time buying the retailer, everyone's got a different size large. So take the risk, buy the product, and in the event that you don't like the product, or the size is just wrong, anything within that merchants existing refund policy, will allow a merchant to literally jump in with the app, return the funds from the original transaction. So think just pressing the refund button weeks in advance, which then saves the customer the 5,10,15,20 or 30 day delay of having to wait for the product to get back to you, you to check it over, and then give that refund. But obviously, in the event that anything goes wrong, say for example, the customer sends back a box of rocks, or the product is destroyed, or they just send back nothing at all, we'd then have your back and then take on the risk from that.

STEVE 06:33
I see. Okay. So this really is the trust factor. Part of it is the with the incident refunds that you're going to see this on the PDP page. And it's just it's putting people just a little bit over the edge about if you're unsure. And this is likely your first time purchase. When you see this kind of badging and service levels, it likely puts you over the edge of wanting to go ahead and make that decision, then if you have to use the service, that the instant service is available to actually get the money back in lieu of waiting for the product to be delivered back through a return label or however it gets back to the original merchant.

GUEST 07:07
Yeah, correct spot on, I think we even look at the refund process itself. Being able to communicate how simple it actually is to a customer before they're walking down the line and taking a risk and making that purchase with you is something that customers genuinely care about. I think it's that that we've seen is 61% of customers will check the refund policy before making a purchase. And over 90% of customers who've had a bad experience with that policy won't go out and buy the product again.

STEVE 07:33
Wow. So let's talk about how this team came together. I mean, your founder, but there's interesting, like the pieces come together, it's very interesting to want to build it appears like a FinTech product. It's very interesting, because with financial backing, you're able to build it. It's just so interesting to me, it's so different than the typical matric that I kind of interview. It's almost like this trust level, on the cart. It's interesting. That's why I have you on today, because I've never seen this kind of thing. I mean, I think there are some post purchase experience tools and things like loop returns or happy returns or Navarre, that may offer some kind of like credits and stuff and trying to help people maybe exchange items instead of refunding items. So I think there is a little bit of continuity there. But I just want to understand, like, where did the desire and the expertise come from to even want to create this platform?

GUEST 08:26
Yeah, I mean, my I'm only 19 at the moment. So I say my past life, but I say that very, very lightly. But yes, it might past life. I was an E commerce operator started my first e commerce Store with Shopify. Of course, when I was 15, I learned how to do it online. I came across Shopify through YouTube, like a lot of people do. And it was someone talking about how they built and sold this incredible product. And that was scaling their business and how Shopify was making it so easy to do. And I was fascinated. And I thought, well, you know, if this guy can do it, while I'm watching through the screen, why can I anyway, like most people who start I completely underestimated how hard it was going to be. Building the store was the easy part going out and like figuring out marketing and customer support, and all those things, they're just even fulfillment. Like another thing. We're just stuff that you have never done before. And I'm sure anyone listening to this can relate. We've never done it before. It's always difficult. And then once you've done it once that just gets easier and easier and easier, the more you do it.

So the first product I ever sold was a carbon fiber money clip looking back on it now completely stupid product, we'd never go back and sell it again. But at the time seemed really cool to add $500 to my name, I got that from mowing lawns next door, selling this product or Shopify took six months to even make that sale. And when I did, the business started to grow quite quickly had the smarts around me to kind of started selling other different products at point we were selling across 12 different stores novelty products, which would range between kind of sale value of 60 to $80. We would buy them in at cost but 20 to 30. So there was a great markup there. And yet, we will go primarily just advertising through Facebook, a lot of the products themselves went viral, which was great for us. But one of the problems we started to have was, we would get customers all the time, who would come in, they'd make these purchases, and they'd be using their details. So by all means, they were legitimate customer, there's nothing wrong with them, they get that same customer would get the product. And I'd come back to a customer support team. And they'd say, hey, my product just never arrived. Or I ordered this. But actually, this was in the box, or the product that I saw on the website wasn't the one that I got. And it was those excuses there think like the list was from here to the Dulong. It was ridiculous. And it was just really any way that someone could try and illegitimately get their money back from us as a brand.

So just beautify really came from the perspective of, we want to help merchants and brands better understand the type of customer that they are dealing with. The way that we responded to these customers was we started dropping things like our refund policy. So we used to have changed mind guarantees, we used to have money back guarantees, we used to have return periods that went all the way to 90 days, everything there we had, because we were customer experience obsessed. But we were now doing everything a disservice of that, because that all of that got dropped to like a strict 30 day policy. No outside of that, you know, getting a refund. Sorry. So that's not the way that I wanted to run a business. And just beautify came towards the point of like, well, in early 2020, if we can help merchants understand, like, not just the name of the customer, if they're performing credit card fraud and stuff like that, like Stripe radar and Shopify Pro Tools are awesome at that. But beyond that, like, what is the history of the customer on your store? What is the history, of course, that network of merchants that were able to build off the back of that, and then giving clear insights.

So you know, which customers to trust, you know, which customers not to trust, and the ones not to trust, add friction and automate responses from that point there. And for the customers that you can trust, offering credible products, like instant refunds, give them reasons to want to shop at your store. So essentially, yeah, we're building a trust layer for the internet. So in terms of the expertise part, we were lucky enough to raise a first round VC funding a month into the company of all things even I'll look back, it's like, yeah, I don't even know how to do that. But yeah, that was early 2020. I'm not smart enough to be technical. So I built a team around me to help build the product itself. I just had all the ideas of like, this is the problem I experienced, this is how I feel it'd be best to run as an operator. This is how we should be building it. We were lucky enough throughout the process, though, to have incredible support of merchants who were happy to try the product, whether it be kind of the order insights, or whether it be the instant refund side of the product. Try all of it give us feedback. Yeah, the first 30 merchants that we even got on the product were literally through cold calling. So we launched on Shopify in early 2021, that there was a bit of organic reach there. But we knew we needed to do something to get the ball rolling. So we got like a list of merchants in our area. And we're calling through and through it through and through. So that was how we got our start. And we're lucky enough to be in a position now where we have over 400 merchants using the application, we've got over 2 million customers scanned, and yet offering products like instant refunds, which at least in my humble opinion, will fundamentally change the way that customers look at shopping with merchants.

STEVE 13:12
I'm excited to dig more into this because you know, conversion rate optimization is definitely a conversation on a lot of people's minds, like how do I maximize the basket size or the conversion rate of my existing traffic? You know, just because CPAs are rising, obviously, the return on ad spend is just going through the roof right now. It's quite challenging right now for a lot of brands. And so anyway, we can come up with solutions to get people over the line, I think it's important. And so like you mentioned a bit that there is I guess, of the first initial and now up to 400. Some brands now that are connected, they're experiencing this conversion rate lift, there's an increase based on having this instant refund capability available. And so I wonder if you could maybe just talk a little bit about that about like, why you believe that this is increasing? I know it's more than just a badge and some apparent trust seal. But why specifically, do you think it's working so? Well?

GUEST 14:07
Great question. I think we can even bring it back down to something that merchants are really familiar with, which is a product pages that have customer reviews. You know, we all spend a lot of time and money implementing great customer review apps. And also to, as you mentioned, there trust badges. We do things like that, because we understand as merchants that if you have a customer who's coming to your store for the first time, you can have all the fancy marketing you want. You can have the best looking website, you can have awesome product pages with great competitive pricing. You can have everything there. But what more can you do from a customer perspective that speaks to well, if you as a customer, take the risk on us as a brand we appreciate you never shopped with us before. How can we offer you something that really stands behind the product and shows that we are so confident in what we're selling that if you take Make the Leap, you make the purchase with us, we have in your back in the event that you don't like it, and you're not going to be waiting 5, 10, 15, 20+ days, that psychology there, I think is very much towards what we are playing into. And I think also too, it's very where we're seeing a lot of uptake is for customers who are using services like Klarna, like a firm like after pay. It's that psychology there where you want the not only the risk removal, but at the same time to being able to spread your payments over four installments. And in the event that you want to return from that product from at least what we believe, you then actually have to wait for the product to get back to the merchant and issue the refund before you stop paying those repayments.

So you could actually pay the entire product off even if in the first day after receiving it, you decide you don't want it and you're still actually paying for those installments until and God knows what's going on with the postage service at the moment, you've still got to wait until it gets back there and the merchant to give that seal of approval before stopping those installments. So there's even a practical side to this thing as well. But yeah, look, I think it just really comes down to customers really just want to understand the type of merchant that they're dealing with. I think it's very similar as well, like brands, you start offering these policies now. Like they're always things like free shipping. I know in like 10 years ago, the idea of offering written five years ago, the idea of offering free shipping for an upcoming brand was kind of like, there are a couple of brands at the top like Amazon, for example. It's just something that Amazon would only do and it's not something that we need to do. It's things like that. And I think that really, if you are wanting to become competitive, there are things that you need to start doing earlier and earlier as a brand. And as I mentioned, the ability to be able to stand behind your product in a way that's actually substantial is I think a lot of the reason to why we're seeing that incredible conversion increase.

STEVE 16:46
That's lovely. I'm going to be devil's advocate just for a moment, though, too, because I'm also concerned that maybe you have data, you know, to, to squash this, but like wouldn't offering like instant refund policy. And I'm seeing the badge right now on a couple of sites that I had pulled up here just before recording today. And it is quite interesting how well it's executed. But I'm just concerned that maybe it has the potential of increasing return rates, knowing that the instant refund is available is like what's the data showing you on your end?

GUEST 17:19
I'll be honest, your concern is exactly what we had when we first launched the product like we knew the value. And we heard that was something that merchant customers wanted. But is it going to increase returns, right, we didn't know, I can safely say from the merchants that we have launched it on, we had not seen an increase in return rates. And initially, actually, that was a shock because we were expecting return rates even just to go up slightly. So after digging into it and kind of come to a conclusion of exactly why I think it would very much come down to customers are only going to want to return a product, if there is actually genuinely something wrong with it. This is almost like a better form of a warranty on every product that you sell, because from a customer perspective is almost like the same psychology of a warranty. But you only want to use a warranty if the product breaks or there's a reason to return it or get your money back or something along those lines, you only enact the warranty, even though it still has friction means you still have to contact customer support, there are still things you have to do from a customer perspective, it's not just as easy as saying like, ah, warranty, I want to use it. And now I just want everything to come back to me from the brand. So I think we're very much playing into that psychology there. And from the ability to be able to make sure that as a brand, if for example, a customer does get a size wrong, that's totally fine.

There's not much there that you can do that if you're selling products that customers genuinely love that great quality, you're not getting returns because like product broke, or just the fabric itself is terrible. There's nothing there that we can do to help that and match is going to be built into your existing return rate already, you're still getting those returns. It's just things like, Oh, my size was wrong. That is really where we're seeing the returns from the instant refunds product. But merchants already have a margin of returns out of their return rate that are happening due to that reason there. And that is really the biggest reason to or at least the biggest thing that we're seeing. And I think because of that, and customers do actually know their size, they just skeptical because they're like, Oh, am I larger my medium on like 90% Sure I'm a large, but I just won't really know until I have the product in my hand, having them take that risk, take that jump and get into it, because what we're allowing them to do, and thankfully, there hasn't been an increase so far from that.

STEVE 19:28
So I'm going to talk about returns a bit here too, because I know that most brands are going to have some kind of technology attached that are store of as loop returns or nirvana or happy returns or return Liam and there's a lot of notable peers out there that really helped facilitate, you know, the kind of post purchase returns experience and try to make it into more of a profit center by recommendation engines and potentially credit to buy something else in lieu of getting that one shipped quicker. And then the new return label in the box or whatever returned bars with happy returns and stuff. So there's not stuff going on in that market. But I'm just curious about, do brands still have a traditional kind of returns experience as part of their tech stack? Or do they use your solution in lieu of that I'm just trying to understand because there still needs to be some kind of a workflow of, it's great that you're getting an instant refund right now, based on if you qualify, and kind of how it all flushes out. I just want to make sure for those that already have existing returns management experience through existing app, how do you pair up with them? And or is it in lieu of what they currently are using?

GUEST 20:37
Yeah, and a great question. To answer that quickly, we insert ourselves passively within an existing return stack. So as you mentioned before, gracefully, the Shopify integration itself is 15 seconds set by the App Store, click Install, were sitting right there for the actual return process itself. It's incredibly simple, because we allow you we're not asking you to change anything about your return policy to date. So say, for example, you're using gloop or return lead to process returns, still allow customers to come through loop still use those things. They're like all the time and money that you've spent setting up like custom rules and actions to make sure that you're only giving returns to customers that fit within your policy, we're not asking you to tear up any of that, keep using services like them, they're awesome. But once that return itself is approved, or even if you're just getting a request through customer support directly, as soon as you as a brand, decide that Yep, okay, cool, we're gonna be giving a refund on this product that then is really kick in. So when I say kick in, I say that lightly as well. Because really, from a merchant perspective, or customer support, per se, you're going into Shopify, you're typing in the order number, you're going the order and just beautify it redirect you straight over into the app itself. Right there, you click two buttons, and within 10 seconds, you had the ability to be able to press the refund button back in Shopify. So we're not even asking to take any funds out of your account, we're not handling that process. So that means that the customer has paid with after pay recliner with us by now pelota solutions, anything other than a credit card, for example, we're not getting in the process there either. So anyway, that they've paid, you'll be able to return the funds, and we're not getting in the middle of that.

STEVE 22:13
I see. Okay, so that makes sense, then you want to have some clarity on kind of how each kind of tool can kind of play nicely with each other. So that's always a big challenge. When you learn about something new. It's like, Well, does it play nicely with existing tech stack? And the short answer is, yes. doesn't interrupt current workflow. Yeah,

GUEST 22:27
even to this day, if you'd be good to add in that like even return logistics, for example, we're not even stepping on the top of that. So if there is a way, I'm still using shipbob, for example, to help the package back to your warehouse, you're still able to organize all of that. And because the Shopify integration itself is native, whether you've got shipping numbers that have been automatically imported into Shopify, were able to read those and make sure that you kept in the loop with where the return actually is, if the customer has sent it off, we're able to then communicate that information straight back into Shopify. So tools like shipbob can then read that information. So Shopify itself is such an awesome platform where you can feed all this information into one. And through an integration like ours, you're not having to go and rip up the first part, or the last part or any part of your existing process. It's super simple, you're in ready to roll and then you can see that conversion increase and see the change in the customer behavior.

STEVE 23:17
Lovely. I want to pivot to a story now because I think that most people listening just get really motivated, almost inspired a bit when they hear a story, especially about a new piece of technology that they're learning about today. Hope I don't put you on the spot here. But it'd be nice to maybe like a story or a case study, just to be great, a recent kind of Shopify business, they've implemented this Beautify. I just would love to uncover like, what specifically kind of motivated them like I guess from their current kind of solution or process and then becoming a dispute of Fi customer? Like, how did things improve for them? Like was there a better business outcomes of conversion lift? Was there a movie impacted? I just if you can just walk us through if you have someone top of mind that you can kind of publicly talk about that would be pretty cool to share today.

GUEST 24:02
Yeah, probably the best example that I can pull is a company called New so the website itself is movie dot one. They're an epic DTC brand and what they're allowing, but what they do is they build incredible inner soles. So whether you're an NBA player, or whether you're someone who's bought a brand new pair of Nike basketball shoes, and you've got too much money and you're looking to improve your game even further, you can go and buy another pair of insoles got to improve that entire experience. So move was one of the first merchants on the incident refunds side of the product. Once again, they came on at a time where even we were skeptical about like I think like your return rate is going to increase or conversion rates increase, like what are those numbers actually going to be? Within the first 14 days of having the product installed? There was a 63.4% jump in conversion. Now before we go any further, I'll just temper everyone's expectation. Here. Installing is probably won't get you that big of a jump and conversion from the first day. But at least from what we've seen, it's smelly at around 22%. Now at the moment, so we were really excited. That was one of the biggest conversion increase jumps that we've seen. And if you ask the question to Why move specifically, we have found the best applicability is with any brand who is either selling something in different sizes.

So move is a great example, you've got shoe sizes, are you a 12, in Nike shoe sizing, or you were 12? In Adidas shoe sizing, who knows they're all like different sizes and weight is the NFL actually dealing with all that. So that competence, they're giving the customers their, you know, the peace of mind to be able to buy the product, I think it's definitely something that helped that conversion rate. And I think also to for brands who are selling products that are like cutting edge, they're new, they're exciting, they're things that customers typically wouldn't have interacted with before, which is most brands, you always want to be selling something exciting. So it's once again, that peace of mind, probably the less applicability we've found is with brands that have a really, really, really low return rate. And that's because they're selling things like consumables, so anything that you really just can't return, whether it's medicine, whether it's food, things like that, you can't return it. So the product itself isn't a very good fit for, you know, the vast majority of brands that are selling something great and selling something that also requires you to pick some sort of size, that there I think definitely fits into that category. And it's, I think, half the reason to why we saw such an awesome jump and conversion.

STEVE 26:31
I love the badging that's on move dot one, it's really well executed in a shop with confidence with instant refunds, learn more, I love the modal in the pop up, you know, buy with zero risk and get your cash back immediately. So you really are overcoming and are building a lot of trust and you know, order it receive a refund, if you need to return it, our team will instantly send you a refund, it's well done. So I could see in this particular case that you know it right could be the wrong size. And one less thing he just don't want to get in the whole checkout flow. You know, they've also got a shop pay installments there, I guess through our partnership with a firm's are giving people some options there to make it more affordable. So you know, you're playing nicely, but you're showing all the right information like on page that needs to be shown there.

And it sounds like the whole flow works out well. And it's exciting, you know that there's potential for, you know, upwards of 10 20%, or more kind of increase in conversion just by trying it. So I'm going to nudge a lot of people listening to this episode today that you know, you should AV test this and get this on your PDP page, like ASAP, you know, you don't know what you don't know. And it sounds like that, you know, it's very clear that it's working. And so with 400 Some brands now I know you're newish in our Shopify world. But that's the whole reason why I'm having you on the show today is I, I really want to share your message that, you know if in fact, you're making a noticeable difference in conversion lift, because of a service you have available and some badging and some great service overall, just very unique way of motivating people to click that Buy Now button and check out I think that's pretty impressive.

GUEST 27:56
no, I appreciate that. And with that people like you, it's super hard to get experiences and products like that we think are awesome that we've got the data behind the backup. And we've got an incredible network of merchants now using it. But there is really only one way to have more merchants on and that's to tell more merchants about it. So thank you.

STEVE 28:13
So what does the future look like for dispute? If I know you're new-ish, young founder kind of doing your thing, you got some venture capital, so you're able to get a team in order. But you know, there's just we'd love to understand like, like, what's the goal for the remainder or the I guess, the NorthStar for the rest of this year, and kind of like where do you think this product is going to head into the future?

GUEST 28:31
Once again, another great question, I would probably say that we look at like, where we going as a business and what we really want to build with the network of notions that we have at the moment, it is the ability to be able to have customers widen that net of merchants that that would typically shop with. And what I mean by that is, I assume that there'd be a lot of people listening to this. I know, I'm definitely one of them. When I'm going to a website, and I'm buying a product and that brand and trust charged me shipping. It's one of those things, you sit there and you're like, Yeah, I'm happy to pay it. But like, just the expectation here in the status quo is that I don't pay for shipping, it's going to be free, because that's what great brands are able to offer me. And we think that instant refunds will become that next status quo, the thing that customers come to expect when shopping online, to be able to experience something so good, like an instant refunds policy from a customer perspective from one brand, and then have to go get a refund from another brand and then experience the day long week long month long delay in getting a cashback that there is the experience is just so few and far between.

So, we really want this to be a customer driven initiative where we have customers who are only going to shop with their network of merchants that we have built because they're just so accustomed to experiences like this. So down the line in the future of web enabled to now start referring traffic to merchants through things like discovery tools, and we want to incentivize customers to do the right thing. Once again, we're a platform for Trust, which means that customers who are doing the right thing, align the 97% of people who aren't out to rip off merchants. Those are the people that we want to incentivize. And those are the people that we want to reward. So being able to build experiences that go even further, that instant refunds that once again, fundamentally changes that customer experience, changes and shifts that status quo, to the more extreme end is where we're going and what we want to continue to build.

STEVE 30:24
Lovely. That's fantastic. And really excited for you. It's really great. I've really learned so much today. And it's funny that you know, more brands that I actually kind of reminds me of like Shopify payments and with shop pay app, like our accelerated checkout option, and like, it baffles me when I see brands, we talking about payments, it baffles me that someone who has Shopify payments turned on but they have not turned the shop app on its interestingly odd to me, because I know the conversion left of having shop pay turned on as the option for accelerated checkout. And when you show them the lift, that can happen, and then they're like, oh, and then had been on boarded by somebody else through another Shopify store, already, they're using the shop app to track their orders.

And they're using shop pay, it's so interesting, and I think you're in the same situation, the more brands that see, and your first mover advantage, now they get to see the instant refund as an option, and becomes a status quo to the kind of level of service that they expect out of their brands that they shop with. More and more people are going to want to get out more brands are going to want to get on board and, and have the service available on their site. And that's great for you, because you're building this platform to facilitate that opportunity and give the insights that the brands need based on the global amount of 400 you have right now. And obviously it's going to grow like tremendously based on this podcast, we're going to definitely take you up on an offer, which is probably a good time to chat about that, because I know that we want to give some kind of an incentive, I guess, for those listening today that really want to prove it to themselves, if in fact, they can get the same kind of work, increase conversion lift by having your technology attached to their store. So, what sort of offer or call to action, we'd like to leave our listeners today.

GUEST 32:03
Steve have spent a lot of time thinking about something that we could offer your listeners. And I always find that like, whenever brands come out, and they like spin this really big offer. And it's like, ah, this is a onetime offer. And it's things that no one else is being given access to. It's just so cliche. So it's something that we've put a lot of time and a lot of thought into. For us, what we are happy to do is the 10 brands that are listening here today who resonate with the instant refunds policy and want to learn more want to come on and join this network of merchants, we're happy to give it completely free for two months, that might seem insane. Because once again, we are actually taking the risk of the return for customers that we're saying, Hey, we trust this customer enough for you to give the money back instantly to them. We're just happy to put our money where our mouth is because we are so confident in the product and appreciate that there are always going to be brands with concerns of like, ah, these my return rate going to increase. It doesn't matter what I can say at a 40 minute podcast to kind of dispel that belief or any other concerns that a brand might have. Because its technology is so new, and it's so on the cutting edge. So Ken merchants two months completely free is what we're happy to do. And obviously everything else is thrown in there, including that super quick 15 Second Shopify integration.

STEVE 33:14
Well, that's lovely. So I'll have E commerce fastlane.com forward slash dis Beautify. That'll go to your landing page, we'll get all the details of those first 10 brands that can kind of get on board, I highly recommend you test it out. It's very clear, with 400 current customers and so new in the market that it's starting to spread quickly as anticipated based on the lift that's happening because of it. I'm sure this podcast is going to be very helpful in sharing that information. I know right now that the app is new, you could search for it quickly in the Shopify app store under this Beautify. There's some more details there. I just you know, once again, Jack, really appreciate you coming on the show. I thank you for just I don't just being honest and transparent about just the problem you're solving how you're helping merchants, I can tell you have a lot of passion behind it very clear getting early stage startup being so young, it just it sings to the fact that you know what you're talking about. And yet you're on a mission to really make a difference in commerce. And I just really appreciate that. And excited we got a line somehow I don't know how I found you. However it is I'm glad we're able to have this chat today and learn more. So thanks for sharing.

GUEST 34:14
No, thank you so much, Steven, I genuinely deeply appreciate you having me on the podcast today. And as I mentioned before, it's without people like you do the work that you do, who are able to sing and share and praise apps like ours and that are trying to get ahead in the market and just trying to get the right brands on it. Get the right feedback are us like without people like you we wouldn't be able to do it. So don't thank me. Thank you. And I really do appreciate it.

STEVE 34:37
All right. Well Have yourself a great morning, and I will have a great afternoon.

GUEST 34:42
Exactly. I appreciate it. Thank you.

STEVE 34:44
I take care. Today's episode was brought to you by recharge the leading subscriptions payment solution for Shopify brands. 1000s of merchants use subscriptions powered by recharge to grow their business and their communities by increasing average order value are you reducing churn and providing predictable recurring revenue, turn transactions into relationships and experience a seamless subscription commerce with recharge, you can check them out today at recharge payments.com forward slash Fastlane. Well, that's it. For today's episode, I'd like to thank you a loyal listener of ecommerce Fastlane. It's my hope that this podcast is offering you a ton of value through growth strategies, tactics, and exclusive insider tips on the best Shopify apps and marketing platforms, all with my personal goal to help you build, launch, grow and scale with Shopify. Thanks for investing sometime today and listening to the show. I'm so proud and excited that you have a growth mindset and our Constant Learner. I truly appreciate you and your entrepreneurial journey.

Enjoy the rest of the week and keep thriving with Shopify.