Shopify Is Building The World’s First Retail Operating System To Arm Resilient Entrepreneurs

Steve Hutt: Hey there, it’s Steve, and welcome back to the eCommerce Fastlane podcast. If this is your first time listening, this is an e-commerce show where we have honest and transparent conversations about building and thriving with your store powered by Shopify or Shopify Plus.

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Now today’s an exciting day. It really is a milestone. It’s a time to reflect and it’s time to celebrate. Today is my 100th episode of eCommerce Fastlane. It has been an incredible two-year journey of growth both personally and professionally. Most importantly, it’s the impact the show is having with knowledge sharing from subject matter experts in commerce, including our agency partners, our marketing platform partners, and app partners, all inside the Shopify ecosystem.

Joining me today, I could think of no other person who I’d like to chat with. My guest is Harley Finkelstein, who is the Chief Operating Officer from Shopify. The company that has given me and many others, the opportunity to develop their life’s work by helping independent businesses and entrepreneurs navigate and thrive online and in-store.

Hi Harley. Welcome to eCommerce Fastlane.

Harley Finkelstein: Hey, Steve, I’m so grateful to be here. Congrats on this being your hundredth episode. I know that there are so many podcasts lately that have come out and most don’t make it to episode three or four and the fact that you’re on your hundredth, it shows how much value you’re adding. And on behalf of all of us in the e-commerce community, the e-commerce family globally, inside and outside of Shopify, I just want to say thank you and offer my congratulations.

Steve Hutt: Thank you so much Harley, I appreciate those kind words. So let’s set the stage a bit for those listening today who don’t know your background. Are able to share a little bit about yourself, your experiences, and then how the last 10 years at Shopify has really helped you become a better version of yourself?

Harley Finkelstein: I was born in Montreal, Canada, and I lived there until I was about 13 years old, at which point I moved to South Florida with my family. And after high school, I ended up going to McGill University back in Montreal, mostly because it was cheap. McGill is a great school, but it also was very inexpensive. My parents didn’t have much money. And so, you know, spending like $1500 a year on college versus $40,000 a year, which is what a US school would have cost was sort of a no-brainer, So I found myself back in Montreal 2001. And that was around the time of September 11, around the time of markets kind of falling apart. It was an interesting time for me I was 17 years old. I just moved back to Montreal, the city that I absolutely love, but my parents simply were not able to support me at all anymore, in fact, they themselves were barely able to support themselves. And so I ended up starting a little t-shirt business at McGill making t-shirts for Universities. That was my first real entrepreneurial venture. I toyed around with some smaller businesses when I was a kid, but that was my first time actually making any real money and spent most of my undergrad not just getting an economics degree, but really building this little business.

It so happened that a mentor of mine had convinced me probably about halfway through my undergrad to consider going to law school to become a better entrepreneur. This particular mentor ended up teaching at the University of Ottawa, which is the capital of Canada. And he motivated me to apply there because well, frankly, he’d be my professor. And so I decided I’d take the SATs and apply to law school. I applied to one school, which was in Ottawa, got in, and ended up moving to Ottawa in 2005.

The interesting part of moving to Ottawa was I didn’t have any friends or family there at all. I didn’t know anyone other than this one particular mentor, but when I arrived, like I always had done, I asked around, you know, where are the entrepreneurs hanging out because entrepreneurs have really been my tribe, my sort of my community since I was a kid. I ended up meeting a group of entrepreneurs and started hanging out with them, and one of those entrepreneurs was Toby, who’s our CEO and founder of Shopify. It was a serendipitous time for me to meet Toby because one, I needed some friends and he was he became a friend. But also the t-shirt business that I had as an undergrad in University was not going to translate well into law school. Mostly because law school requires attendance and University undergrad does not.

So I decided that if I wanted to continue to be able to pay my tuition and afford rent but also help my family, I needed to transition my business from a wholesale business selling t-shirts to Universities to having a retail business that was virtual and operated concurrently while I was in classes. And as I heard Toby make the transition from snowboards into software, I became intrigued by whether or not I could be an early adopter of Shopify and could I take my t-shirt business and moving online. I did that and became one of the first stores on Shopify in 2006.

I spent the next couple years finishing law school and building up this online store called Smoofer. After finishing law school I went to Toronto to practice law for 10 months, hated it, thought it was the worst thing in the world. And in 2009, I called Toby and asked him, if he would have me if I can join him and a handful of other engineers, and be the non-engineer in the group and help them commercialize and build the business. The rest is history.

Steve Hutt: Thanks for sharing some of that context. I knew most of your backstory from some internal dialogues we’ve had in the past, but it’s nice to share externally, some of these life lessons and some of these learnings. I’d like to make a pivot over to the global pandemic, the stay at home orders over the past three months or so. From your vantage point, how is consumer spending being affected by traditional brick and mortar retailers versus these digitally native brands that are selling exclusively online, I would love to hear what your insights are.

Harley Finkelstein: Well, you’ve heard me say this before. couple times now, maybe dozens of times now, but it seems like the year 2030 from a retail perspective has been pulled to the year 2020. And there are a couple of data points which demonstrate that the most important impactful one is that, it took about 10 years to go from about 5% e-commerce of total retail to about 15%. And it’s taken about three months to go from 15% to like 25%, which is a dramatic increase. I mean, we’ve seen the same amount of growth in the last three months as we have in the last 10 years. This would have happened eventually but it’s happened a lot more rapidly.

And what’s emerged is sort of what I would refer to as a tale of two retail worlds. On one hand, you have these resistant retailers, retailers that simply did not have it in their DNA to quickly pivot and to survive COVID and a lot of them have not, you’ve seen a lot of big companies go out of business, some iconic brands, like J-Crew, Barney’s, Neiman Marcus, and Forever 21, just didn’t make it. And it was because, in my view, they were resistant to change. And they did not have any sort of entrepreneurial spirit or abilities in their culture in which to make these changes rapidly. And so they were resistant, and some of them did not make it.

On the other hand, you have these resilient retailers, these entrepreneurs, these brands, who looked at what was happening mid-March and said, we have to make some deep changes. We have to change the way we do business. We have to change the way we connect with our consumers. And for those that have made that change, frankly, it’s been great for them. Now that’s obviously on the supply side of it. on the demand side, what we’ve also seen is consumers voting with their wallets in a way that we’ve never seen before to support small businesses. To support independent retailers. To support local entrepreneurs in their cities and towns wherever they live. I think the combination of having resilient retailers and brands that have pivoted and figured out what they have to do to survive and thrive in this new world, and consumers saying we prefer to buy direct, has resulted in what I think is some of the most important, impactful and interesting times of retail of the last couple hundred years. I know that’s a big statement, but I’m certainly seeing it. And it’s interesting whenever I talk about this, I think folks immediately think I’m talking about sort of the kitchen table entrepreneurs, people that have 2 or 3 employees, and they’re just getting started and they’re just building their business. But actually, the resiliency is not limited to small startups. We’ve seen companies on Shopify in the last couple of months, for example, Chipotle created an online farmers market on Shopify just to help some of their farmers that they have as their suppliers. We’ve seen Heinz ketchup create a direct to consumer condiment package in the UK. Lindt Chocolate is now selling direct to consumers on Shopify. And so what is amazing is that the resiliency is actually not limited to just the select few or just startups, it’s actually some big companies are beginning to act really entrepreneurial. And I think it’s working. I think there’s some great success coming out of this.

Steve Hutt: You talk about a retail operating system, what Shopify actually is. So let’s dig into that a little bit because I think it’s really, really interesting. Maybe some of the specific tactics around how you believe brick and mortar retailers today, how should they navigate the current retail environment?

Harley Finkelstein: I think from our perspective at Shopify, we think that our responsibility to the 1 million and more stores that use us has expanded when someone there says I’m going to work. What they really mean is they’re opening up their Shopify Admin and that’s where they’re doing their work. Navigating the Admin, fulfilling orders, adding new products, shipping out products, adding new marketing tools, starting and launching new campaigns, that’s all being done directly from Shopify. That’s a wonderful thing for us to be the core of their work. That is a wonderful position for us to be in, but with that comes great responsibility. And so I think if you were to ask most people who don’t know Shopify, who doesn’t use Shopify, what we do, I think most people would say, well, we’re an e-commerce provider. And that’s true. That’s we’re best known as the largest player in the e-commerce world. But those that use us realize that the relationship that we have with these merchants, it’s just different. And what we’ve tried to do, and I think in many cases quite successfully, over the last couple years is we’ve tried to figure out what else can we do to make entrepreneurs and small businesses lives better. What else can we do to further level the playing field so that small businesses can compete with the largest retailers. What can we do to help companies that are at scale, you know, whether it’s the GymSharks of the world or Fashion Nova or Allbirds, all started on Shopify. They have now grown to be category leaders, what more can we do to help them. And what we started doing was we started adding well beyond just e-commerce functionality, we added physical retail functionality, like point-of-sale, we’ve added a multi-channel commerce capability. So you can sell on Facebook or Walmart.com or Amazon or Pinterest, or Instagram or anywhere you want.

Beyond that, we’ve also said, Shopify is not a retailer. But if you were to pretend for just a moment that we are a single retailer, you would realize that in the US alone, we would be the second-largest online retailer in the country. If we were an actual retailer where we would keep those economies of scale for ourselves. Our ability or opportunity as a platform is we can simply distribute those economies of scale to anyone that uses us. What I mean by that is, by using Shopify today, you immediately will get payment rates that traditionally small business couldn’t get on their own. You immediately will get access to capital, actual money to spend on inventory and marketing that you couldn’t get otherwise on your own. You get access to fulfillment and shipping. You get access to fraud protection services. We’ve begun to fill in the gaps of what every small business may need. And we think we can do a better job for them than they could get on their own. And we can give those economies of scale out there. And again, level that playing field. And I think what all that amounts to, is the world’s first Retail Operating System. And although no one searches for that, per se, you kind of know it when you see it. And I think that’s what makes our current offering. It’s always evolving, but our current offering, really, really compelling as a place to start your new business, but also a place to run your business when you’re at scale.

Steve Hutt: Yeah, that’s fantastic advice for these brick and mortar retailers. And it’s just exciting some of the innovation that Shopify is doing and actually it was pre-COVID that a lot of these things were actually in the works, but it just made it very timely that we were able to push a lot of these updates and getting feedback directly from our merchants about what sort of things they needed. Buy online and pickup in-store through a POS or curbside pickup or a connection to local delivery companies, or even if right from within the Shopify Admin. It’s really exciting how easy it is for multi-channel, as you said, Facebook and Instagram and Marketplaces. And shopping local is another major topic that comes up quite a bit. People are really looking to invest their dollars more locally, and that’s really exciting.

Harley Finkelstein: And that is quite amazing. I agree with that. I mean, it feels like a return to caring deeply about our local businesses. I think all of us are concerned that on the other side of COVID, will our local businesses still exist? Will the local flower shop still be there? Will the local barbershop still be there or a local cafe. So, we want these things to exist, because those are the things that make our communities interesting. That’s what gives them character. And one of the things I’m probably most proud of being at Shopify for over a decade now is what happened in those first couple of days after COVID hit. And what happened was, we said to the company, you remember this, I’m sure, we said to throw out your plans. The only thing that matters right now is to help small business to survive and potentially thrive, that’s all that matters. And so whether it’s doing a 90 day free trials instead of 14 days, whether it’s adding gift cards that service-based businesses can use us at least temporarily, whether it’s things like adding local pickup or instant pickup or local delivery, whether it was pushing out Shopify email as fast as we could, or the Shop App or the new Shopify point of sale. As a company, we pivoted to help small businesses in a way. It was inspiring, watching the company come together. I’m really proud of how we showed up there and I think a lot of businesses will exist, because we refocused and recalibrated what’s important.

Steve Hutt: Yeah. I’ve gotten significant feedback on the speed at which Shopify has executed on helping and they really were the life raft sorta speak for a lot of brands and one case study that I have is a brand that had 38 retail locations. They were restaurants in the US and obviously they were all closed. They came to me and asked, what can we do? I said, well, one option could be, have you thought about making packs of food or make it a theme night? It could be burgers, it could be taco night or pizza night, whatever it is. And can you package that up together into the necessary food items that you need, sell it as a package on Shopify, and have a curbside pickup for that sort of thing. And their business massively blew up, just because we offered that level of service and the functionality from within the POS and live on their website.

Harley Finkelstein: And that’s a great example of another resilient retailer. One of my best friends is a guy named Steven Beckta, he’s a great Canadian restauranteur with some of the most iconic restaurants in the country. Within a week of COVID hitting, he obviously had to shut down his restaurants. He turned his understanding of wine, his understanding of hospitality into one of these incredible wine boutiques Curated By Beckta. You tell him the types of wine you like, your tastes, your preferences, and then he curates a box of wine. That’s a brand new business for him that didn’t exist pre-COVID. And that will likely continue indefinitely, even on the other side of COVID. That’s what I mean by some folks have really thrived through this. And I don’t mean to make light of a really terrible situation, frankly, the global pandemic is a terrible situation. But it is inspiring to see these glimmers of hope from entrepreneurs that simply are not willing to shut down. They’re not willing to give up, they’re not willing to fail. They really are just trying to be resilient and create more value and I think this is wonderful.

Steve Hutt: I tend to interview people in our app ecosystem, marketing platforms, agency partners. And every year, we typically go to an in-person event called Unite, and this year, it was repositioned as Reunite. Are able to give some highlights, first of all, what Unite or Reunite actually is and then maybe dig into a couple of the most impactful announcements.

Harley Finkelstein: Yeah, so I think we’ve been doing Unite, which is our partner conference for about four years. I want to say something like that for maybe five years. As Shopify’s resident power extrovert it’s one of the most my most enjoyable weeks of the year because I get to connect with partners and friends in the Shopify family, the ecosystem that I don’t often get to see and there’s a ton of hugging, there’s a ton of smiles, there’s a ton of, you know, fist bumps and high fives and it’s just it’s a wonderful opportunity to connect with our partners and and as anyone who knows me or knows Shopify knows, our partner ecosystem is one of the most important parts of Shopify. It’s one of the things I’ve spent the majority of my time at Shopify building and developing and it’s something that means a lot to me. This year, obviously, we couldn’t do Unite because we couldn’t get together in person. But in the theme of the pivot and the theme of resilience, we decided we would create something different, and instead of doing Unite, we would do Reunite and invite not just partners but also merchants and, and it would be a virtual event. And it was amazing. We had about an hour and a half worth of talks from different product leaders and people building great tools for merchants and Shopify. I think there were over 100,000 people tuned into it, which is super cool. We usually get about 1500 people in attendance. So having 100,000 people there was just awesome. And we got a chance to announce pretty amazing things. For example, new areas and the new expansion of Shopify capital to new geographies, like Canada, installments, which is coming soon to Shopify payments, Shopify Balance, which will give merchants access to financial products to start running and grow their businesses and help them with cash flow management. The Shopify card and rewards and so so much came out of that. And that’s just on the product side. On the education side, we talked about where Shopify Compass is going and some of the tools and some of the ways and workshops that we can help merchants and partners become more successful. We talked a bit about what is happening with some new APIs and new ways that partners and developers can build new products and functionality for Shopify, and it was awesome. It was just so much fun to do that it was such a great way to connect. Was it the same as Unite? No, it was different, but equally, in its own way, you know, one day I hope to go back to an in-person event because I think that’s always fun. But Reunite was really great. We got it set up in a matter of a week or so. And the feedback that I got from partners was really great. So I’m happy about that.

Steve Hutt: That’s the exact same feedback I received from our partners because I’ve interviewed a lot of them. And they were disappointed when they bought their tickets originally hoping to go. They knew how quickly it’s sold out every year. But then they were excited that we’re able to put on a virtual event and excited that it was open to the full public, not just partner ecosystem, but even entrepreneurs, and that was fantastic.

So let’s dig into another term. This new normal, or I even see some wording now people call it the next normal. It’s been widely shared in media for this first half of the year and from your vantage points, I think is kind of unique. Are you able to share how you believe retail and commerce are changing? I’m just curious at a tactic or two or strategy or two, what can brands do today so they could remain more relevant and more competitive.

Harley Finkelstein: Well, look, we are certainly in a new normal, something may go back slightly to the previous way that they operated, but most things will not. And the first thing I think that’s super important to realize is that and that’s this is sort of why I often lead these conversations with talking about the year 2030. Because if you can forecast or you can foreshadow what would have been the world in 2030, and pull it back today, I think it’ll be quite valuable. One thing that is certain is this idea of multi-channel or omni-channel or pick your buzzword. There are still way too many brands that view that as a strategy. That is not a strategy. The strategy is that if you are a brand that’s going to be successful in the future, you need to sell your product in the way that your consumer wants to buy the product. Full stop. Multi-channel is a tactic that allows you or enables you to sell products anywhere or more places so that the consumers that you are attracting, find the buying experience customized for their particular preferences. There’s a big difference from what it was even 10 years ago. 10 years ago, the retailer dictated to the consumer how to buy. We’re open Saturday morning at 9am. If you want this lineup right now, we’re going to close on Sundays at 4pm. So if you want something be there before that, if you want this product, you have to come in-store. If you want it online, you have to buy it online. That has been a dramatic change, which is that now consumers are dictating to the retailer how they want to purchase. So one is, I think omni-channel is fairly well known at this point. The second thing is, the idea of direct to the consumer being a fad. I think direct to consumers is the best way to purchase products, in almost every category. There are very few categories where intermediation makes sense. If you’re buying paper towels or you’re buying shampoo, and it’s fairly generic, it may be easier to go and buy all your stuff at one particular retailer. But generally, I think that consumers like the idea of direct to consumer because one, the buying experience is better. The people that make the products are usually the ones that know how to sell the products the best. Not always, but in most cases. Second, the people making the products get to keep 100% of the profit margin. And I think we as consumers want to support independent brands, independent stores. And third, I think that when you are buying something, you are voting with your wallet, that you want that thing to exist in the world, that you want the people behind that product to exist in the world. And so I think this new normal or next normal, wherever you want to call it, we’re going to see far more direct to consumer. I think we’re going to drop direct to consumer as a term, it’s going to be like saying, color TV, you don’t say color TV, you just say TV, I think we’re on it. Every brand will be a direct consumer brand. They may also sell through intermediaries as a way to expose their products to a new audience, which is why some of these channels can be very effective. But I think that’s kind of where we’re going. And I also think that right now at least because we can’t spend our money on experiences like travel and vacations. Consumers are looking for cool stuff that’s gonna make their life better. I’m drinking my matcha tea right now, I drink matcha every day. I want a great matcha tea shaker. And right now I will spend a little bit more money on my matcha tea shaker because it’s important to me, it’s a big part of my life, whereas eight months ago, I would have been like, it doesn’t really matter to me, I’m traveling a lot, and airports a lot, I’m on the road a lot, I’ll just grab whatever I can. But because I’m here in my home office every single day, day in and day out, things like that have more meaning to me. I think it’s a wonderful opportunity for brands and products that are really thinking dramatically different around how can they create value for the consumer. And honestly, for retailers that are not adding value, that believe their reason that they exist is because they have distribution, they have a physical store. Unfortunately, that’s just not gonna work anymore. Consumers are demanding that if they’re going to give you their hard-earned money, you need to add value to their life.

Steve Hutt: Yeah, that’s great advice. I was thinking about the Shopify Plus brand Gym Shark. I think you know this story quite well, and I think it’d be great to hear it from your context, the fact that they made a very interesting pivot from Gym Shark to Home Shark in the middle of the pandemic. I had a lot of strategies, a lot of tactics that I shared with the brands that I managed even to the Merchant Success Team. We have lots of documents, case studies, and a lot of shareable content that we’re getting out into our merchants ecosystem, saying, listen, there’s opportunity here. And so now we’re looking at some of the leaders in the marketplace and what they have done to grow and build a community. Are able to share with the listeners today, why they renamed their social channels from Gym Shark to Home Shark, and what that actually did to bring value to their community.

Harley Finkelstein: Yeah, I mean, I’ve been a loving observer of the Gym Shark story since almost day one. Ben Francis and I have been friends for many years. He won the Build A Bigger Business a couple of years ago, which is our Shopify Plus competition. And so I spent a lot of time with him and his team. Simply put, the reason that they changed their online channels to Home Shark from Gym Shark was because they understand their consumer. They have deep empathy for the people that are purchasing their products. They understand that most people that were buying Gym Shark clothing and apparel, were buying it and then wearing it to the gym, and COVID hit, and gyms shut down. And so they had two choices, they could have lamented the fact that gyms were closing down, and that’s where people wear their products. The sort of the resistant entrepreneurial side, or because Ben and his team are phenomenal, and they’re thoughtful, and they have deep empathy. They’re like, no, our people, our consumers are going to continue working out. They’re just gonna work out at home. And so we need a brand that better reflects the current realities of what is happening. And the current realities that we all turned our dens or kitchens are, in my case, my daughter’s bedroom, at least temporarily into a gym. Yeah, I do that when she’s awake not when sleeping of course, but we’ve all kind of pivoted quickly. And so they’re like, well, we have to reflect what our consumers are actually doing. And they did it within a matter of days. And I think that to me, it epitomizes why I mean by that resiliency, they could have done a strategy session, they could have hired consultants, they could have done a bunch of decks and a bunch of meetings and brainstorming sessions. Instead, they said, look, here’s what our people are doing. Here’s what the people that care about Gym Shark are doing. Let’s make sure that we pivot our business, pivot our narrative, pivot the way we speak to our consumers in a way that makes sense given this new reality because otherwise, it would be completely tone-deaf to continuously talk about gym experience when every gym is closed. And I think those are the companies that I look to for inspiration. And it’s not a surprise to me that those companies that have that deep empathy for the consumer, tend to also be the companies that survive and thrive and are the most successful in their category.

Steve Hutt: Harley, we are nearing the end of the show for today but are able to share some closing comments or any takeaways that you would like to leave with our listeners today.

Harley Finkelstein: I know most people that are listening tend to be those that are entrepreneurs and people that are in sort of the e-commerce world. But one thing that I am beginning to see that I’d like to share is that it’s been really exciting for me as I’ve been self-identifying as an entrepreneur since I was a kid. The story I didn’t tell, I think, you know, when I was 13 years old, I just want to be a DJ. I didn’t know how to be a DJ, no one would hire me. And so I started my own DJ company and hired myself. I don’t really talk about that story, because the DJ company was not that successful. But when I said to my friends, my family, hey, I want to be an entrepreneur, I want to start this business. Well, it certainly was not well respected. It certainly wasn’t well known. It was kind of a weird thing. One of the things that I believe is happening right now is more and more people are considering their own version of entrepreneurship. More people right now are considering commercializing their hobbies and starting a business. More people now are thinking about those that have been unfortunate laid off how they can take something that they love, that they are passionate about, and build a business around it. More people now that may have worked at a gym, you know, back the Gym Shark story, are now thinking about how they can create content and create a set of videos to help people working out at home and to do a better job of that. It feels like more and more people now are trying their hand Entrepreneurship and I think a world with more entrepreneurs, a world with more independent businesses is just a much, much better world. And I’m inspired to hear stories from folks all over the world. Working with Shopify, and even people that are sending me a note on social media saying, hey, just you know, I decided to start a little business, I make a delicious barbecue sauce at home for my family, and I decided to create a little store and now I’m selling that barbecue sauce around the world. That is such a wonderful thing. If a byproduct or a positive externality that comes out of COVID is that we turn more people into entrepreneurs. I think that that is just a that’s a wonderful thing. That’s something that I’m very optimistic about right now. And I think the world needs more entrepreneurs.

Steve Hutt: Absolutely! Well, as you know, Shopify ‘s mission is to Make Commerce Better For Everyone. It’s clear that you, the executive team, our incredibly dedicated partner ecosystem, all Shopifolk, the employees inside Shopify, are in tight alignment with the desire to educate and find efficiencies through technology, grow revenue, assist in building lifetime customer loyalty for all entrepreneurs around the world. I just wanted to thank you firstly for taking the time today to acknowledge this 100th episode, sharing some knowledge, your vision, essentially giving back to the Shopify ecosystem. I really appreciate it. It truly is an exciting time that I know we are making a difference in the lives of entrepreneurs and brands around the world.

Harley Finkelstein: Oh, thanks, Steve. Well, thanks for having me on the show and for all of you that are listening and are part of the Shopify family that are part of the Rebel Alliance. Those of you that are helping us armed the rebels. Thank you for everything. Thank you for your loyalty. Thank you for your passion. Thank you for propping up entrepreneurs everywhere. And to you Steve, thank you for doing this show. And congrats on the 100th episode. Incredible milestone and I’d love to record again and celebrate your 1 millionth download if you’re up for it?

Steve Hutt: Alright, that’s a deal. Thank you so much, Harley. Have an awesome day.

Harley Finkelstein: Thanks, you as well.